I swear..one more thing this week and I am going to take up drinking as a hobby

Yea Kris! I'm so proud of him for standing up to the pressure. It's hard when you're family had a force of will.

Lori, I hate lists like that. I really do. My MIL wants the kids to write out stuff like that and even the adults. I'm like, I want to be surprised! I won't let the kids buy anything in December for themselves, either. I hate it when I find them the perfect present and then they go out and buy it for themselves a week before Christmas. In our family, we do gifts for the kids only on Scott's side. On my side of the family, it's $10 charity donations for the adults and gifts of $10 or less for the kids. And we take the "or less" very seriously. In fact my mom is getting Quinn (who is 2) a bunch of empty cereal boxes and oatmeal containers in a great big cardboard box. That's all he really wants anyway.

We do buy Scott's mom a gift because she really, really wants a big Christmas with presents for everyone. She says she has to buy for Scott and me and his sis and BIL because even if we're only buying for the kids, they ARE her kids. I usually get her a nice framed photo of the kids, or a photobook or something like that. I used to try to get her something for her, not to do with the kids, but she really likes this more. She will sit with the photobooks and go over and over them.

I think maybe I will send the e-mail draft I made below to the more reasonable of the two SILS. I used some of the advice I got here along with it.

Hi Rani,

I forwarded Sunny's e-mail about Christmas to Kris and let him decide what he wants to do. It wasn't something that was planned since we had agreed not to do gifts for the adults. I know we won't accept gifts without giving any in return, that would be in bad taste. So he can check in with Sunny and you to figure out what amount, what types of things to get. It's not that Kris and I are trying to be humbugs or anything by wanting to do kids only . It's just that the magic of gifts at Christmas is really about the kids and family spending peaceful time together.
Just thinking about all the unfortunate people who are struggling due to the poor economy makes me appreciate the fact even more that I don't need gifts. We were just trying to lighten a bit of the commercialism and stress of the holiday and keep it kid centered and fun. It's not as fun if you have to stress about finding a gift appropriate for that person, will that person like it? did you spend enough? did you give something as nice as what you received? going to the store full of angry holiday shoppers, etc
.
I don't want anyone thinking that we buy for my family and not yours. We do for my parents and brother every year, only because there is a need there. If the need didn't exist we wouldn't do it. My parents are on a disability budget, so we give them money which goes toward gas, groceries, etc, whatever they may need more at the time. It's the same with my brother, he is in need, so we give him a $20 bill he can apply it to one of his bills or groceries etc. My sisters and I do not exchange gifts and never have, not even for birthdays. We know we love each other, and so for us just a call knowing that someone remembers is special enough.

For future Christmases if it's important for either of you to exchange gifts for adults, you can do it with your two families if you want and we won't be slighted by it. We really don't need anything and would rather not receive anything. We were really just looking forward to the boys Jay, Alex, and Ethan opening their presents, the looks on their faces, watching them play with them afterwards, that is the part we enjoy most (that and eating your toffee bars, hanging around talking, drinking coffee etc.)
Let me know how you feel,
Thanks
Kelly



I think it sounds friendly enough, and I don't think the SIL I am sending it to will have a problem, it's the OTHER SIL that finds something to take offense to no matter how nice it may be. She will probably say that I am making her sound greedy (the truth hurts) and she will say I am making a big deal out of nothing, she may even go as far as saying that I made my husband evil lol. One time in the past he told her off and she told me in an e-mail that he wouldnt' go against her wishes if he wasn't married to me. I told her he was an adult and can do whatever he wants to do, I don't force my opinions on him and that she would just have to accept that he said what he did to her because it's how HE felt. She didn't like that at all..I really don't think there is any pleasing this particular sister. In fact it's easier getting along with the schizophrenic one (who lives out of state) when she is here (which isn't often) she always thinks our house is bugged and that we may try to poison her.

I would leave out the part about your family, but good otherwise.

It sounds friendly enough to me. Good job, Kelly.

I would leave the part about your family out too, you shouldn't have to explain yourself and your one SIL sounds like the type to whine and moan that she has needs to you know.... I think you were very polite.

I would like to tell her that I realize she has "needs" as well but unfortunately the local stores do not sell personalities or I would have bought her a new one
They are not hard up and so if it bothers her that we give my parents and brother a little bit because they need it, then if she can show me that she is in need of money to buy TP, or deodorant then Kris can give them a little something, but that is not the case. Actually I sent it out a few minutes ago. Hubby said to go ahead and do it. This is what he said...

Go ahead and send it. If they get offended, too bad. We can’t tiptoe around them forever, and it would explain why we buy for Victor and your parents.

So I did send it...what's the worst that could happen? They could get pissed and not give me the presents they got me that I didn't want anyway? They could not want me to go over? As long as hubby doesn't get upset, that is my concern and he said not to worry about it..

Good Luck Kelly. Worse case, stay home with a bottle of wine while he goes for the Christmas visit.

Well all of that and believe it or not, it didn't do any good. Both SIL's agree with each other, and so hubby agreed to buy stuff because we don't want to recieve and not give anything in return. I just don't want to go now. I think hubby thinks I am a little silly, but it's the principle of the whole thing. I get angry because one of them stomps their foot and pouts and everyone does what they want, while I am just supposed to sit back and not make waves.
I don't want to throw a fit and not go and upset him and ruin our Christmas because his sis had to have her way, but I REALLY don't want to go. Sometimes I wonder if I do make a bigger issue out of it than what it is, atleast everyone else seems to think so, maybe they are right. I have a lot of bitterness towards women who act that way. His sisters have always been treated like queens by their husbands/brother, all they have to do is say something and it's taken care of, even if the other party doesn't really want to they will pout, give a dirty look, etc. and still get what they want. It makes me furious..maybe it's something I need to get over, I dont' know.

For example, we went to Walmart this weekend to get wrapping paper and while we were there I saw a beautiful lighted garland that I thought would look beautiful on the fireplace mantle. I have wanted one for some time. It was $25.00, hubby said well, that's kind of expensive to pay for that, and walked on. So, I thought, okay, we can't afford it with everything else right now.. We get home and later in the day SIL calls, he talks with her a bit and next thing I know he is asking her what to get everyone. So add up the cost of a bottle of wine, gourmet coffee, chocolate, two $10.00 gift certs, filler gifts, wrapping paper, tissue paper, bows, and how much does that total? We had the money for that.. I dunno, I guess hubby knows I am usually quiet and sane, and am not dramatic, and demanding, he loves me for it. But I am seeing that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but yet he would hate me if I were the squeaky wheel... If I bring it up to him then he will just get pissed and go buy the garland and say, "Here.." But that's not what I want...

Kelly- I wouldn't say a word. Of course I am a bitch but when he was getting ready to go I would be sitting in my pajamas and simply say, have a nice time, drive safe. I might even go buy the garland and hang it while he was gone, lol.

I'm sorry, it always sucks when they don't stick up for us (I love my hubby but when it comes to his family I am on my own, luckily for the most part we get along) and just go along.... I mean we are the ones they have to live with! I would be fuming if I were you, and I don't think you are wrong either. It's short notice to buy gifts particularity AFTER you agreed not to. Therefor I think you have every right to take a Kelly day while he goes, it's Christmas and there is no reason for you to go and feel uncomfortable. I wish you luck whatever you decide.

I am with tara, sitting in my jammies and watching him walk out the door.
I would SO not give on this.


I am waiting for my sister, who plainly said " I cannot buy gifts for everyone, so lets just not do gifts" to whine and have a piss fit when she doesn't get anything.

I think it's really odd for grown women to demand the exchange of gifts. They can go buy their own wine, coffee, gift cards, etc. They basically told hubby what to get themselves. Meanwhile...what do you think they got you? I would not want to go. I'd get quite sick, but like Tara says, I may recover just enough to go get the garland to cheer myself up.

Good luck Kelly, they sound like real pieces of work. I hate that you're expected to fit into their weird family dynamic and not only accept their behavior but act like it's normal.

Early on in my marriage I noticed that when Scott and I would agree on what to get our parents for Christmas, Mother's Day, etc., I would buy something for each of them but a day or two before we were to exchange gifts, Scott would go out and buy something extra (and a little more expensive) for his mom. So after the third or fourth time, when I knew it was going to be a pattern, I asked him. He said, Well I just wanted to get her something extra because she's my mom. I just looked at him. He said, I bet you feel the same way about your mom, don't you? Duh!!! But he did change his pattern after that. We agreed on a budget and he did the shopping for her, so he could pick something from the heart.

Kelly, it is totally up to you as to how to handle this. But this is what I would do. I would think of all the money you guys have spent over the last year that wasn't on necessities. I'd include gifts, things you bought just because you wanted them, supplies for the cakes you made, money to help out friends and family in need, etc. Then I would make a list of the things that you've splurged on for yourself, your husband, your kids. Then I would make a separate list of the things you've splurged on for your side of the family. Then I would make a final list of the the things you've splurged on for his side of the familly.

I would ask him to sit down, show him the lists, and ask him if he thinks it's a fair distribution. If he starts to say that he'll spend more on you or your family, stop him and tell him that you don't want more spent, you want a more even distribution. Tell him that he can call his sisters back and tell them that he agreed because he loves them and wants them to be happy, but that he does not want to exchange gifts. Or he can call your family members and explain to them how they are less worthy of gifts than his family.

There you go Kelly- get a BIG box, wrap it all fancy and put a picture of the cake inside Of course you would have to go to see the look on her face. I would just smile politely and say well, since I had no notice, I already spent my extra present budget on your cake.

Hee-hee! That would be funny!

Kelly, I also wanted to add that I didn't mean to suggest to do the lists as punative thing. It's just to show him that it's not a particular incident that bothers you. It's a pattern. You scrimp and save when it comes to spending on yourselves (like not buying razors or the garland or even the things he would love to get himself and doesn't), but you've spent hundreds on his family in just the last few months (cakes, presents for the kids).

It's not that he's prioritizing his sisters over his wife... it's that he's prioritizing his desire to avoid unpleasantness over his wife. So give him a choice between an unpleasant conversation with his family or an unpleasant conversation with you and your family. And don't feel bad about putting him in this position. He's going to have to have this conversation with them sometime. Either that or just be a doormat for them the rest of his life. And that choice might be OK if it was only him. But he's making you a doormat too and he doesn't have that right.

I really really like the idea of getting sick that day.

I honestly couldnt do it. If today one of my SIL's came up and siad "we are buying for y'all" I would tell her that was her dumb ass and we aint doin presents. But I have that kind of relationship with mine. One S & BIL DO buy for my kids. and I honestly feel guilty about that. BECAUSE I dont recipricate, they dont have kids.

I actually resent the fact that I have to buy for my mom, when I am NOT buying for my inlaws. BR doesnt care. He does feel guilty about not buying for anyone. But I tell her that THEY cant afford it, so he understands. But my mom is alot like Kellys SIL.

For my birthday she called me. "what did you get"
"nothing, I didnt want anything and we cant afford it"
"well thats not right, you should get SOMTHING"
"birthdays are for kids, I could care less"
"oh not me. when I dont get something, I get mad. I love gifts"

Yes I know, and every year it puts me in a hard place. I cant afford gifts.

My grandmother always gave gifts to her and her brother, and us grandkids (there were 2 of us). Plus the great grands. Well she died, and my grandfather remarried. When my mom only got a card for her 50th birthday from the new wife and him, cause they decided to not give her a gift, she exploded. Do I want a gift from him and that woman? NO, Did I always LVOE the gifts from my grandmother? yes. BUT she got me stuff I could use, or wouldnt buy myself. I got a pair of tennis shoes for my birthday every year for about 17 years. Those came in real handy when they were the only shoes I got each year. You know whats funny? I dont own a pair of tennis shoes to this day. She died a few months before my house burned, and I never got another pair of tennis shoes. I bought my first pair of crocs after the house burned and a few pair after that (that is the only shoes I own now, other than one pair of heels), and so I dont own tennies.. LOL

anyway, I know I the only one who gives my mother a gift. Her dad doesnt, and she has no SO. She only has me and the kids. But its agervating to know that I am expected to. Its never from the heart. its cause I have to. And since I know I am the only one, I feel guilty when I dont give her something nice. I try to find 3 or 4 things on clearence, but dang...

But on years I can afford for MIL and FIL and such, its fun. They dont expect anything. and honestly dont want anything. So giving to them is exciting, and enjoyable. I actually regret that I cant afford it this year.

I buy people presents whenever I feel like it. I buy gifts for people that I know need it, or just because I want to do something nice for them. I don't expect to get things in return. And I'm perfectly OK about accepting gifts with just a thank you so much. I don't feel that I'm required to exchange gifts because gift giving isn't a transaction, like paying for some detergent at Wal-mart. If I spontaneously decide to give a homeless man a shirt, I don't expect him to give me a gift in return. It's an expression of joy, appreciation, celebration. And if someone is moved to give me a gift, I graciously accept and appreciate them for what they've done. If it's a gift from the heart, they'll be happy that it made ME happy. If it wasn't, they can get over it.

I agree Karen. There are certain people we buy for every year but it always a gift, just that. A gift is not something that should come with an expectation of reciprocation, if it does, it is not a gift.

Despite having less money, I have more to give this year. I have baskets full of free or close to free stuff- things people have an actual need and use for so I am excited.

A friend of mine expressed it so nicely one time. She was bringing some things to a family. The dad had just run off with all their money a week earlier and she didn't even have enough to pay their bills. So my friend went to her with some money that she and several others had collected so their power wouldn't be cut off. The woman started crying a little and was explaining how it was her little boy's birthday the day the electric was going to be turned off and she had been thinking that the power would be cut off on his special day.

Well, my friend's 9 yr old son started tugging on her arm and saying Mom! Mom! and she kept trying to get him to hush because this lady was crying. And then he started trying to get in her purse and she got mad and said WHAT! and he told her that the gift card he'd won in a raffle was in her purse, and she said So? He wanted to give it to the woman so she could take her kid out on his birthday. Well they were both stunned because it was a $50 gift card, but my friend got it out and gave it to him and he gave it to the woman. She tried to refuse it and then started saying she would pay him back as soon as she had money. And my friend said, No. Don't pay him back. This is the most generous thing he's ever done and he's over the moon proud and he's going to remember this his whole life. But if you pay him back or give him something in return, you'll take that away from him.

Well to me, that's what a gift should be. It should make you feel happy and proud that you did something for someone else. But shopping off a list that the person made out for you and expecting them to shop for you off a list you made out for them is NOT what Christmas is about.

I think one of two things will happen.

1. I will try really hard at faking sick. (which I don't think will work as I am not good at faking anything.)
2. I will bring my own bottle of wine which I will quickly consume after arriving there.

#2 would be quite interesting. First of all I have not had a drink since I was with the kids father over 8 years ago. He was an alcoholic and I was just so disgusted from his behavior that I couldn't care if I ever saw another bottle of alcohol in my life after he and I split up. Hubby is very adamant about not drinking which is great. He has never had 1 drink in his entire life. I think I may have mentioned a while ago that I might like to get a few winecoolers, seriously 3 get me to feeling warm and fuzzy and that's about all I drink, no more. When I brought up getting some he had an odd look on his face and grumbled. I know he wouldn't like it at all. But it's okay for SIL to have wine all the time, I swear everytime we are over there she is drinking it, and he's going to buy her a bottle for x-mas. I am dreading the whole thing so much that maybe that warm fuzzy feeling that it would provide would get me through the evening without wanting to scream..

I like the idea of bringing your own bottle. Tell your DH that you think it'll help you get through a difficult day.

Well, I don't know if this is better or worse..the SIL that is coming up from downstate is coming up on the 20th, as far as I have been told, that is the night that they are doing the x-mas gift crap. So hubby comes home last night and says that the SIL that lives up here e-mailed him at work and wants to do turkey dinner (this is the woman who CANNOT cook, the one who will probably buy a 5lb or less(if there is one that small) turkey to feed 11+ people. She wants to do it on the 22nd.
I gave him "the eye" and i said if the turkey dinner isn't on the same night that we are doing gifts then I will only attend one night, you choose which one. Whichever one I attend you better purchase another bottle of wine besides the one you are purchasing your sister, because I will need it to get through the evening. Hubby sheepishly looked at me and said that he would ask to see if they are on the same or different nights, he said if they were different nights that he would say I have stuff to do for mom on whichever night I don't attend. I think he knows that I am really near the breaking point with my patience...

Kelly you are a bigger person than I am. I would sit home both nights with a bottle of wine and a pizza- so you know you'll get fed as well, lol. Maybe you should bring a large turkey and tell that's the collective gift, a meal that the entire guest list will get a piece of. I have a 26lb one in my freezer. I'd send it too you but shipping would cost 40x what I paid for the turkey, lol. Of course you could always substitute turkey for cans of spaghetti o's.

I'm sorry, I'm so mean, I want to smack them upside the head for you.

Me too, Tara.

You are too kind, Kelly. The longer they get away with stuff the cockier and more aggressive they will get with it.

I'm mad at your hubby too. He told you to send the email- he should have continued to stick by you and stood his ground. Seriously (don't take that the wrong way Kelly), I can completely see Rob doing the exact same thing and I can feel the irritation, lol. In fact I keep glaring at him, he finally said WHAT? lol

Kelly, you are one sweetie.

From my personal experience, I have found that not speaking up at the right time makes things worse- so much worse that when one does speak up, one goes way overboard. Seriously. As a mother and wife, you are in charge of your immediate family and it is your right to make plans, decide on expenditures and other things.

As it seems right now, at least to me, your SILs are running everything. That is not to say they are bad women. It's just that what they want may not work for you all. At the time of the gift, a simple "I'm sorry, hon, that would not work for us but thank you."

When it comes to dinner, a suggestion to make it a family effort because "Our family has healthy appetites..."

If you continue to put your husband in as the mediator, you will have to accept his decisions. Right now, he, poor thing, is between his honey and his sisters. Kind of not fair. Unless they are very controlling, guys tend to take the middle road with these things.

I don't think what you want is extreme at all.Like most of us, you have budget concerns and wonder just how much you will get in return.

People do not hear you if they feel you are not going to speak up anyway. You can speak up and still be nice. Remember Karen's suggestion? That was perfect and would have done wonders for getting your opinions heard. Why does it matter so much what they think? What if you stayed home, had a nice meal with your family and then visited everyone at a later time?

There is a lot of potential here for making great memories with your family and in-laws, if things are handled correctly.

Take the advice not to involve your family (mom, dad, siblings) in the reasons you can't do things. That's not really fair to them and painting a picture of them always being needy might make for bad feelings later on.