news stories....thoughts?

1) 19 year old male shot by police after he shot and killed a police k-9

link here


2) Dogs shot in front of owner after they wandered onto neighbors property. Owner was trying to round them up, neighbor shot all three dogs

link

Although there were no links to click, I still have an opinion based solely on what you posted.

Based on the first case, I think the police should shoot the guy in story number 2 for shooting neighbors dogs.

I'm not trying to be flippant, just logical.

Dee, there are link's in kath's post.
In the first case it sounds like the guy was already shooting at the police before the dog was released. I'm curious to know why they released the dog to subdue a guy who clearly had no problem firing his gun at people -- the chances are pretty good that if he'll shoot at a person, he'll shoot at a dog that was trying to take him down!

In the second instance it sounds like there's more to the story. Maybe an old feud or something? I know a lot of farmers have to shoot dogs for getting into their livestock, but I've never heard of a case where the dog was shot just for being on a property when the owner was trying to get it. I grew up in the country and the neighbours' dogs always used to wander into our ravine when they got chasing something. It wasn't a big deal to us even though the owners weren't with them. Sometimes people seeing you give a bucket of water to a rotti on your front porch is a good thing -- they don't know he's not your's!

Well, the first one is clear cut. Killing a police dog is legally the same as killing a police officer in most parts of the country (to prevent drug dealers from ordering hits on drug-sniffing dogs). When he started shooting at the police dog, he was shooting at the police.

But it is sad the a 19 year old young man would be in those circumstances. So young to be carrying a gun and shooting at the police. I feel for his family.

As to the coon dogs, there does sound like there was more to the story. The land owner knew that the dogs were tame, were with their owners, and couldn't possibly know what the boundary lines were. Even if he believed that the owner was purposefully letting them on his land to tick him off, it wasn't the dog's fault.

I understand why they have to release the dogs sometimes, and I think the dogs are just as much a hero as our cops. They are devoted and put thier lives on the line just like policemen do.

Personally, I am glad they shot him. He was more than willing to kill someone, And he killed an officer of the law. even if it is a dog. THey have the same rights as and same protection as a cop.

I am not sure, but I think it might be capitol murder to kill a K-9. To me its a wonderful law.


And I have had dogs that Got in to kill my chickens. They wouldnt stop. the owners didnt care. They have chased my horses, and if a horse runs through a fence just right or breaks a leg you have to put them down. And I have had dogs attack my goats. They can kill a baby goat and even a grown goat quickly.

If the dogs were attacking my animals I wouldnt care who was standing there. If there was no immenent danger then you have to decide.

But as someone who's father in law coon hunts, we have never had this problem. Most coon dogs dont mess with anything except coons, and the bad ones will tree a possum or a skunk. LOL But people around here are pretty good about it. Of course we always ask before getting on someones land to retrieve the dogs..

yeah, there were links... wonder why they didn't show up for you?

my take????

first count, shot the police dog... the man should have been taken into custody. Shot if need be, but not to kill. Just to bring down.. What happens to all those taser things in cases like this?


Guy who shot dogs? History or no, the dogs were being brought under control. Be pissed at the right person.. the owner.. don't shoot him, proceed with legal consequences IFG he is actually doing something wrong.
I hate hate hate it when loose dogs show up in my yard. Hate it..

Not the dogs though, the owners... the irresponsible owners...

kath wrote:yeah, there were links... wonder why they didn't show up for you?

my take????

first count, shot the police dog... the man should have been taken into custody. Shot if need be, but not to kill. Just to bring down.. What happens to all those taser things in cases like this?


Guy who shot dogs? History or no, the dogs were being brought under control. Be pissed at the right person.. the owner.. don't shoot him, proceed with legal consequences IFG he is actually doing something wrong.
I hate hate hate it when loose dogs show up in my yard. Hate it..

Not the dogs though, the owners... the irresponsible owners...

Police shoot to kill because tasers, pepper spray and all other 'non-lethal' means of protection simply do not work when a criminal has super-human strength regarding the adrenaline. Adrenaline can make a person pick up a car to save a child, it can also prevent pain signals to get to the brain...these people keep on going and going. There have been a great many instances where a taser does NOTHING...and even more incidents where pepper spray does even less.

It takes A LOT for an officer to pull his or her gun....98% of them are trained VERY well and do a job that I do not have the guts to do. I hear gun shots, I run away..they run towards it.

I have a very difficult time with people who monday morning quarter back the police when they know nothing about procedure or why they follow the rules that they do.

I have SEEN, with my own eyes, a man, who was shot 2x's because he had a gun in one hand and a knife in another, he was going after an officer. The officer shot him...AND IT DID NOT EVEN TAKE HIM DOWN. He went on to stab the officer, after taking his weapon; the officer struggled with him to get his weapon back...eventually he did, but he needed back-up. It took 6 officers to take this man down...AFTER he had been shot.



The police SHOULD always shoot to kill. Shooting to hurt puts us ALL in danger.

Also, if someone is shooting at me, I would aim to kill. Someone shot in the leg or pepper-sprayed can still fire a gun, and is more likely to hurt bystanders since they are less likely to be aiming well. And tasers and pepper-spray require you to be close, as in point blank range. They'd have been killed before getting close enough to use them.

I don't agree with killing.. not cops, not kids ( some cops from the same citty killed a twelve year old boy in the back, I believe it was.. two years ago. .. and tasered a mn sleeping on the sofa in his living room ..)

[quote]

I have SEEN, with my own eyes, a man, who was shot 2x's because he had a gun in one hand and a knife in another, he was going after an officer. The officer shot him...AND IT DID NOT EVEN TAKE HIM DOWN. He went on to stab the officer, after taking his weapon; the officer struggled with him to get his weapon back...eventually he did, but he needed back-up. It took 6 officers to take this man down...AFTER he had been shot. [quote]

I wonder if that is the exception or the rule?

A very good friend of mine is a retired cop.. He thinks that there is more killing than need be..

Not being a cop.. I don't know.. but it is my opinion that there are plenty of times when killing can be avoided.

Just my opinion... ( and Marks)

I agree that the killings should be and need to be avoided. But I really think the best ways are to concentrate on giving people better options in life. Education, loving relationships, opportunities for decent jobs... all of those are much more effective than guns in stopping crime.

But if someone is already shooting at me, I wouldn't attempt to taser him.

You are absolutely right, that people should have more options...
better upbringings.. learn right from wrong...


I just think that if someone shot mein the arm or in the leg it might distract me enought to let them disarm me. I have never been shot, however.. so I could certainly be wrong....

I gotta agree. I aint gona stop and see if the 10 foot of leads on my taser gun will reach them if they are shooting at me. And have you ever seen someone get tasered? if they had a gun in their hand they would uncontrolabley pull the trigger until the clip was empty. Who would be shot in that situation?

My uncle was a cop in Houston. He killed a man one time. He was responding to a bank robbery. They had guns and were firing. he aimed to NOT kill the perp and missed. it went into a parked car and hit a man in the temple. killed him graveyard dead right there.

He was devestated. unable to cope. Until the mans family came to him and told him that It was Gods will. The man had been told that he had an inoperable brain tumor and wouldnt live any time. The family said that he was too religious to kill himself. But he had just went and fixed his finacial stuff at the bank.

My uncle never forgave himself, but he did accept it and I can remember him telling us even as kids. "when you pull a gun, you aim true and you aim to kill." He learned his lesson.

I never fault a cop for using their weapon in the heat of the moment in a situation where they are being threatened with death.


Plus I had a friend in HS who was shot in the shoulder. just so happens it was a major artery. He bled to death in minutes. Idiot shouldnt have shot himself.

So shoot.. but does it have to be to kill?

I guess I just don't understand.

If someone was threatening a loved one.. would I kill them

cheerfully..

but these are trained men...

isn't there another way?



12 yr old boy story


another 12 year old boy story

my point was, you never know if your well aimed 'hurt' them shot will kill or not. It did in my friends case.

Plus, if you are aiming for an arm, and they move it, where is your bullet going to go?

I left out part. My uncles bulled did ricochet. it wasnt dead aimed at the guy. it was an absolute freak accident. FREAK accident. but its one of those things you cant explain.

Kath, I read both of the additional articles you linked. And I agree that there should be another way. Personally, in the case of the first article where the police shot the 12 year old boy, not knowing he was a child, only knowing he had stolen a car -- well, I hate that it happened, but I also know that my son was already 5'6" at age 12. That was the year he was my height. He also weighed 180 lbs. In fact, I worried a lot (still do) that people would look at him and assume he was an adult, when he was still just a kid. What the police did was wrong. But it is a very human mistake to assume that the person stealing a car is an adult. It is a very human mistake to assume that when a shot was fired during a crime, that you are in danger. And it is very human to react to that perceived danger. This was a horrible thing, no doubt about it. But I can see how easy it would be, when you're scared and it's dark and you think a grown man, a criminal, had just taken a shot at you, to make that mistake.

In my state, somone is allowed to shoot a dog if it enters his property or farm where there are farm animals located. If you happen to have a goat or such and a dog enters your property- it is legal to shoot the dog. We have had a few cases like this lately. I am not saying it is right or wrong as I am a dog lover- just stated the facts here.

Did y'all see on the news where in ca there has been 3 children grabbed or bitten by coyotes?

The latest was a 2 year old child grabbed right out of her yard. They got her back and she is out of the hosp with bites on her head and neck.

That;s horrible we used to have coyotes, but not lately, too muc development in the area.

All we have going on here is a giant sinkhole in Liberty county.

Coyotes are the one creature I will kill just for the sake of killing. I wouldn't say I hunt, I wont kill something I wont eat but they are different.

I imagine that I will never be in a situation to aim a gun at anyone (don't own one!) but yes, if I was threatened I would aim at the largest target I could. Not that I'd be aiming to kill, but aiming to hit something and get myself out of danger. I assume that would be the torso and not an arm or a leg. I just feel that my life is more important than someone else's and I wouldn't be thinking about consequences to them but to myself and my family if I were killed.

I honestly think the laws favor criminals in most situations. It makes me really angry.

All we have going on here is a giant sinkhole in Liberty county.

I'd be plenty concerned about a sinkhole! And marauding coyotes!

edbson, ROFLMAO! I am watching that on the news!!

I have them. They crippled my dog a few months back. That is why anytime I walk outside at night I carry a gun. The night they attacked my dogs they were literly a stones throw away. I was honestly scared. and I dont get scared. I am used to being at home alone at night. but that night I was scared. and heartbroken, Duke is alive, but his backend is partially paralized.

The yips send a tingle down my spine. But as long as the cyotes are here we dont have the panther.. LOL My house is in his 25 mile radious. When he comes through the coyotes leave.

And I dont like my kids in the woods in the daytime when he is around. He will attack in the daytime.


tara, I agree. and I am big on only killing what you eat. skunks and coyotes. and that big ass cat if he comes back! LOL

I agree with you 100% lori. I would kill in a heartbeat to save my own life. and I am REALLY tired of criminals having more rights than their victems. Like the ones that break into your house, you wound them and they SUE YOU! give me a break. plus a dead criminal is not a drain on the system.

We don't have them here, but at our Property in Spurger there are Coyotes, Panther, bobcats...you name it. . It's in the river bottom,At Barlow Lake( I inherited it, would never ever live there, and don't really want it), and no one cares.......They are all too busy with their Meth Labs I guess. I don't go there at night, ever. I have and will shoot them, I shot a big dang something last year...some kind of really large cat, but not a Bobcat

As far as criminals, I am licensed and I carry, all the time especially at night. My friend got robbed at walmart in Beaumont, in broad daylight.

OH, and that sinkhole is getting bigger.
http://www.kfdm.com/news/sinkhole_25934___article.html/daisetta_feet.html

I am seriously expecting to fall off into Sabine Lake at any minute, we live right on top of a salt dome. Most of this area is on top of salt domes......

yep, you should be fallin in soon

and they said they have lost tractors, cars and some of the old tank battery from the 50's wen it was a oil well.

and yes, I dont blame you about the barlow lake thing.. BAD BAD people there.