The War Of Northern Aggresion

I am interested in history. Could you explain this war? I am not political. I would like to know the history from a southern point of view. Also the value of the Mason/Dixon line. The Yankee was north - the displaced went south, is that correct?

Remember, I am Canadian. So there should not be any line of bull to pull. I have enough cows that free range that shit on my land and enough Canadian politicians that shit on me.

trax wrote:I am interested in history. Could you explain this war? I am not political. I would like to know the history from a southern point of view. Also the value of the Mason/Dixon line. The Yankee was north - the displaced went south, is that correct?

Remember, I am Canadian. So there should not be any line of bull to pull. I have enough cows that free range that shit on my land and enough Canadian politicians that shit on me.

The reason for the Mason/Dixon line is so that northerns who decided to move south will know the humidity levels. It's very humid in the north (ie north of the M/D line) and it's unbearable in the south (ie south of the M/D line)

This coming from a person who moved from MI to KY, just above that line

Well, as John Prine writes - Humidity Built The Snowman - Sunshine Brought Him Down.

What are those folks in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia - that is deep south - they are human? George Bush is from Texas - is that consider south?

We do have the separation in Canada, with Quebec. I have no reason to speak french, I speak english.

trax wrote:Well, as John Prine writes - Humidity Built The Snowman - Sunshine Brought Him Down.

What are those folks in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia - that is deep south - they are human? George Bush is from Texas - is that consider south?

We do have the separation in Canada, with Quebec. I have no reason to speak french, I speak english.

Bush isn't human and yes, Texas is considered the south.

Texas is about as South as you can get. Not really as much Antebellum as Georgia, South Carolina and even Lousianna, but South none the less. Those states were more upscale so to speak. Texas was still rough and tumble. Indians and snakes. Mexican bandito's. Horse Theifs and train robbers. Most folks in Texas were hard working, dirt farmin or ranchin poor folks.
WHen you look at a map, we are the one that dips down into Mexico. Very large, 2nd biggest state in the union. We have Ranches bigger than Rhode Island.

Texas was a part of the confederacy. But 20 years before that she was her own country. she was NOT 'taken' or 'bought' by the US She went in as an agreement. Texas still has it in the constitution that she can sucseed and become her own country again. She is the only state allowed by law to fly her flag at the same level as the US flag (all others have to be lower) her state house is the only one taller than the white house. Texas was once part of Mexico. The Texans got together and faught Mexico for independance (the Alamo and San Jacinto), Then years later went into the union.

This is very basic, very cut and dried, not all of the facts. There are too many to mention.
The states divided when there were many disagreements over states rights. The war was bloody and nasty. Most of the south was burned, pillaged and ruined, crops, plantations, animals and families. . when the war was over northerners were sent in to 'reconstruct' it. called carpet baggers. They continued to make life miserable for the southerners. This went on for MANY years. hence the slight dislike for yankees by some southerners. (that and they talk funny)

The south at the time had no industrial type things. all steel was up north, factories were up north, guns and bullets made up north. The south grew cotten and beef. was NOT tame, outlaws and indians still roamed and there was fights or skirmishes frequently. Indians were still a problem in much of the south.

It ws not long after the revolutionary war. and most people who faught in the civil war had daddies or brothers who faught in the rev. war. . remember, it was traitors that faught the revolutionary war. They just happened to win, so they became hero's.

The mason dixon line basicly is the line that was drawn between the states. Some men from the south went up north and faught, some from up yonder came down here. Most families here , well ALL families here pretty much had moved to the south in the last 30-40 years. meaning a man fighting cause he lived in the south, would meet his dad or his brother on the battle feild fighting for the north.

There were travesties on both sides, many confeds didnt accept the war was over. They continued and turned into renegades and outlaws.

I honestly dont know the numbers of deaths on either side. but it was signifigant. tens and tens of thousands. if not more.


President Lincoln was shot and killed by a displaced southerner. John Wilkes Boothe. This just made it harder on the south.


And yes, folks from the deep south are human. They had beautiful plantations, balls, and society. Being as there was not many packed and croweded large cities, the south wasnt like New York, with shanty towns and such. They had their poor, but this is where those up north came when they wanted to better themselves. Down here in Texas it didnt really matter that you were Irish, or german, or what ever. You got you some land and you worked it.


There is more, but I have to go and get my coupons together.

Oh and yes, Bush was our Gov. (the person who runs the state,) (the family is originally from up north, maine I think...) But, I for one am proud of the fact.

oh and it wasnt the 'displaced'. It was just really the people that already lived there. some folks did leave home and join the other side, but that wasnt that common.

It was just the way it worked. You were either north or south. There was no mass exodus (sp) to the south and then an uprising. There were just people who had trickled down, made a life, didnt like the way the goverment was ran, and decided they could do it better. They had no reason to think they couldnt. It had just been done the same way 80 years before.

Trax, like all wars the American Civil war had more than one cause. But here are the basic facts. In the 1860's, the southern half of the USA decided that they did not want to be a part of the USA. If you'll remember, not all of the country was settled at the time, so this is mostly the eastern half of the US that was involved. The western half was still territories, not states.

Anyhow, the south had several problems with the north. The government was all centered in the north, and most of the population was from the north. So because we have a representational government in our house of representatives (one vote per a certain population), most of the laws favored northern businesses and lifestyles. They taxed farms heavily, taxed the sale and transportation of the cotton and other crops that the south grew, and also began to suggest outlawing slavery. That was a good thing, but would have been economically devastating for southern farmers. There was a lot of land, and the main crops were very labor intensive. The north wanted to outlaw slavery all at once, and while some southern states were interested in ending slavery, they wanted to do it gradually in stages so that the farmers could find labor and the slaves could find homes and work (most of them did not want to stay in the areas where they had been mistreated).

So 11 southern states seceded from the USA (at the time commonly called the Union) and formed The Confederate States of America, with their own president, laws, money, etc. They also stopped paying taxes to the Union, stopped shipping their crops to the US, etc. The northern states rejected their independence and began military attacks to force them to relinquish their new government. (Which is why the south still calls it the War of Northern Aggression. Most people in the south just wanted to up and be a different country, but not go to war with their old country.) But when the north would not accept their decision to leave, a full scale war started.

The "border states" were states like Kentucky where I live now. They did not leave the Union, but they still had social and economic ties to the southern states. They were farmers, but their farms were smaller and less dependent on slavery, so they could see both sides of the issues. Many border states had families where one brother would join the Union army and another would join the Confederate army and they would be in battle against each other and sometimes would end up killing each other.

The president of the USA was Abraham Lincoln and in September of 1862 he made the Emmancipation Proclamation and declared that all slaves in America were free (this included the southern states because the USA government did not recognize that the south had a separate government). Though this part is not often mentioned in northern schools (I went to school in the north AND in the south so I know the difference), many southern states voluntarily freed their slaves as well. Remember, slavery was only one of the causes of the war. Excessive taxation and poor representation in the government were the others.

Anyhow, the freeing of slaves led to more support from other countries, more support from the border states, and more manpower and black soldiers in the north. And eventually the north won. But there was a lot of tragedy, burning of southern farms and fields so that crops couldn't grow and they wouldn't be able to feed their military (and as a side effect wouldn't be able to feed their civilians), burning of entire southern cities (although they did try to evacuate them first), and many soldiers and prisoners of war who starved because the supply lines were cut. And when you add in the dead from both sides, more than half a million people died. Very, very sad.

Everything Chelle said, and for good measure, the south WILL rise again...lol.
Texas is about as South as you can get, and I live as south as you can get without getting wet, right on the coast. I can see water from my kitchen window...lol

Chelle did you know Texas is also the only state that has it written in the Constitution that you can wear a sidearm in public, except in church and the courthouse?
I grew up in Lousiana which is VERY Antebellum, very genteel southern...very much built on slavery.

We must remember that the war wasn't actually fought over slavery. Freeing slaves was just a side note to financial gain made by "conquering" the south. History tends to be somewhat washed over in our school system so neither side gets the true picture. Jefferson, initially, wanted slaves covered int he constitution the same as whites but he was outvoted and it was written just as it stands today.

The south is a lovely place. I was born in Louisiana but raised in California. However, we lived a southern lifestyle, Louisiana-style in particular, so it is a place that is dear to me. One thing to note is that African Americans have a holiday called "Juneteenth". That is because: Though the Emancipation Proclamation had been issued on September 22, 1862, with an effective date of January 1, 1863, it had little immediate effect on most slaves’ day-to-day lives, particularly in Texas, which was almost entirely under Confederate control. Juneteenth commemorates June 19, 1865, the day Union General Gordon Granger and 2,000 federal troops arrived in Galveston, Texas, to take possession of the state and enforce the emancipation of its slaves. Legend has it while standing on the balcony of Galveston’s Ashton Villa, Granger read the contents of “General Order No. 3”:

The people of Texas are informed that, in accordance with a proclamation from the Executive of the United States, all slaves are free. This involves an absolute equality of personal rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves, and the connection heretofore existing between them becomes that between employer and hired labor. The freedmen are advised to remain quietly at their present homes and work for wages. They are informed that they will not be allowed to collect at military posts and that they will not be supported in idleness either there or elsewhere.

We still celebrate Juneteenth even in California.

I was born & raised in Montgomery Alabama (Heart of Dixie) I lived there until 7 years ago.
Actually my husband is the assistant manager of Bentonville Battlefield here in NC.
It's a historical landmark etc.....http://www.nchistoricsites.org/bentonvi/
Honestly until I met my current hubby I was pretty ignorant about much of the civil war.
I do remember seeing the "for whites only" signs on the drinking fountains at the state capital when I was a kid.
Amazingly enough I knew at the tender age of 3 that was f...ed up.
Hubby has done a lot of historical events (re-enactments) for his job.
They call them "Living Historians"; he generally portrays William Tecumseh Sherman.
Life is funny...I was always appalled that grown men would dress up in costumes and run around shooting each other for fun.
I was one of the people who would point & laugh at their idiocy.
Since meeting my hubby I have a new understanding and respect for what they are doing.
(though not enough to go out & buy a hoop skirt)

Trax….I will see if hubby will help me to explain what it was about. This is his area of expertise.

Wow, Pearly, I never heard of Juneteenth. I like it. I'll have to put it on the calendar and celebrate it next year.

The town I live in, Berea, has an odd history that relates to all this. It was a tiny little place with a few families but not what you'd call a city. Then a man named John G. Fee came in the 1850's (just before the civil war), started a church and a college and turned it into a town. But it was a planned town. Very, very planned. See he was an abolishionist (militantly against slavery) and he was trying to build a racial utopia. The college had had the students white and half black and they took classes together and lived in a common building and worked together (it was required to work for free instead of pay tuition and it still is). And the town was laid out so that on any given street you could not have two white families or two black families side by side, or even directly across the street from each other. They HAD to alternate, just like a checkerboard. His idea was that if you lived with people who looked different from you, you'd start to see that they only looked different, but that people were all the same. The college motto is “God has made of one blood all peoples of the earth.” And it was the first interracial college in the south, and also the first co-ed (men and women) college in the south.

Of course, it didn't quite work as he planned, but it was a grand experiment and seems to have had a lasting impact on the community. There is racism, of course. Sadly, that's universal. But it's not nearly as bad here as in some of the neighboring communities. And Scott says that he rarely if ever sees a racial slur written on the wall in a public restroom in Berea. But he sees them from time to time in other towns. So that's something. Not sure what... but something.

Oh, and as a side note, Scott's family donated much of the land that Berea College sits on. Most of the white kids in the first graduating class were Ruckers.

thebigscott wrote:Wow, Pearly, I never heard of Juneteenth. I like it. I'll have to put it on the calendar and celebrate it next year.


Of course, it didn't quite work as he planned, but it was a grand experiment and seems to have had a lasting impact on the community. There is racism, of course. Sadly, that's universal. But it's not nearly as bad here as in some of the neighboring communities. And Scott says that he rarely if ever sees a racial slur written on the wall in a public restroom in Berea. But he sees them from time to time in other towns. So that's something. Not sure what... but something.

It says, to me, that no matter what path the loud majority try to take us down, there are still and will forever be people who can think for themselves and see things differently and as close to how things are supposed to be as they can come. Someone, somewhere will always try.

This image is from the 2008 Juneteenth celebration in our city. We had a Confederate band who played songs like It's a Grand Old Flag, Battle Hymn of the Republic, etc. Then, of course, we got down with some rocking Gospel and some R&B. The event is kept mostly to what the slaves did to celebrate.

Karen said it much more eloquently than I did! LOL

Erin, YES! as long as its visible you have to have NO permit to carry it. I ddint realize we were the ONLY state though... thats sad. and weird... BUT if you wish to conceal it, you may become licened and do so. I actually have a gun rack in my truck. LOL But due to me going to the school so much I no longer can use it like I used to. So now I just put the rifle in the front seat when I have it.

And its also illegal to carry wire cutters in your back pocket. Kid you not! LOL

Oh and please go over to the a-z songs and identify JP richardson. Its been killing me all day. I have hinted and noone has got it! LOL )


pearly, you are right, cause 90% of the people that fought in it, didnt own a slave. heck, they were scrapin to get by as it was. I bet La to Ca was a MASSIVE culture shock!! I have lived ALL over this nation, and have ALWAYS been identified with in 2 minutes of speaking as a TExan. LOL La aint much differnt! So, how deep do your southern roots really run? would you rather have fatback and greens, or tofu and sprouts?


and like Karen said, if you were to release how ever many slaves all at once, can you IMAGINE the problems? seriously? I am in NO way advocating slavery. (my family DID fight for the south, and of that I am proud, but never owned slaves. They were very poor, many came to the new world as indentured servants. gained their freedom and hauled butt to Texas) But if you just told 10,000 people all at once to 'go forth and prosper' in a land that was NOT freindly to them, what would they have done? They had no land, no money, no possesions, many didnt even have last names, very few could read or write, it would hav ebeen genocide.

Once free'd many former slaves did stay on at their previous owners land and continue to work it. Many went west. Some went north.

Scar, oh wow!! how neat!! I too kinda laugh at the reenactments, BUT do love the history.

I would love to join the DRT, DAR and DOC. I just dont have time. I have linage to do all 3. on more than one side. I also have a great great great great grandfather that fought on the union side. Funny, his daughter married a man who's daddy fought for the CSA.

But all in all, it came down to, the south wanted the same thing the north was getting. The same reason George Washington risked his life. who was it that said 'no taxation with out representation' for the American Revolution? Mayhaw? same as the wild grape? or am I remembering that wrong? LOL I am pretty sure that was my 'cheat' for my history test in school.. LOL

Chelle, how insightful of you. I have been known to grab me a couple of pig feet and then toss a green salad with sprouts and tofu and just git down!

It is true, many slaves stayed where they were but many left also. Actually, not much is like it is portrayed to us. You have to have family history and/or study on your own to find out the truth.

ROFLMAO! pearly, God Bless you for being honest! And, greens have to be good foryou. They are green after all LOL Just please tell me you aint mixed no chitlins in with chinese food LOL

And your right, I am blessed in I have my great x3 grandfathers diary from his civil war days, and many letters. So I know how they lived and what it was like for them. (his first wife was a yankee, and let union troops eat from her orchard when he was gone to war fighting for the south. she left town with his 2 young sons. and went to Ca. The last name Ralph ring a bell?



I also learned alot doing family geneology. And have tried to help quite a few Byerly's that were decendants of slaves. (one of hubby's great x5 uncles and grandfather brought 3 from Tenn. when he came down here in 1842,), They took the Byerly name when they were free'd. We couldnt get far, but it was a wonderful learning expeirience.

The last name of Hadnot, (both whites and former slaves or their decendants have this name,) came from the rolls, in ellis island and here in the south for census'. It comes from has not a name. Its always broken my heart, cause geneology is so important to me, that its so hard to trace linage of slaves.

I swear Chelle, you're killing me. For Superbowl Sunday one year, I swear we had hog maws catered in. They were soooo good! Look, honeylamb, we are in California and there isn't anything anyone eats that they can't get from a Chinese restaurant. It took us a minute to catch on...

Here is a story you might enjoy...

A friend we called Skateboard was from Mississippi and one day he and my Ex went to the Chinese smorgasboard for lunch. As I said, they had all you can eat Chinese and Soul food. Well, Skateboard saw that stack of nicely golden brown pork chops on the line and piled himself a plate full. Being around 6'7" and of hearty appetite, he went to refill several times. After all, it was "all you can eat"...

After the fourth time, the owner/cook comes running out the kitchen and heads straight over to Skateboard. He leaned over him and yelled, "EAT SOME VEGETABLES, PLEASE!!!" Skateboard didn't pay him no mind at all. Just asked him if he had some "light bread" in the back so he could sop the gravy from the egg foo young.

A Soul food and Chinese buffet? I'm the first to admit that I don't know a lot about Soul food, but that sounds like one strange combination!

ETA I just googled Soul Food and I still think that it would have been a strange buffet although I think I'd like the Soul Food better than the Chinese! LOL!

You guys are killing me with the food! I have the dietary habits of a 4th grader and I think I'd die at a soul food and chinese buffet.

Chelle, I never got into geneology, but I've always wanted to look up some of my great-grandfather's second wife's descendants. He was Armenian and the Turks were trying to kill off all the Armenians. He was conscripted into the military by the Turks at gunpoint, and forced to help kill his own people. Those who did not were tortured and killed, and their families, towns, and churches were attacked. He was told his family had been wiped out and that his wife and children were dead. So he worked his way up to a position of trust in their military, and knew which towns and families were due to be rounded up and excecuted next, and then he kept leaking the info to those who were sneaking Armenians to safety. Then the wife of the Turkish officer above him came to him one night to tell him that they had found out that he was the leak and he needed to run. So he did. He had remarried and had more kids so he snuck his second wife and their kids out with him. He told her that he wanted to go see the graves of his first family before they fled the country. And when he got there, his first family was alive. He had two wives. So they ended up annulling the second marriage and his best friend married her and raised the kids as his own. I would love to find their family... but I don't even know the best friend's name. Shoot, I don't even know the second wife's name. But I love the story.

pearly! Girl, I was laughing so hard I woke up the baby! I have tears.

I can see that happening! and I wasnt gona bring up no hog maws! LOL chitlins was my limit! LOL Pig tails maybe, Ears, ahhhh.... . But not maws! LOL I cant belive you can get the catered in!

The other day I was in walmart, and there was a couple there, you could tell they were snowbirds, just down for the lake. Well, finally the woman opened her mouth. Yep. way north.. She said "young lady, can you tell me exactly what THAT is?"

"yes ma'am, its tripe"
"is that a fish?"
well my child explained to her JUST what it was. and since she wasnt a good enough shade of green, they showed her what everything else was too! Right down to the chicken feet.

A little while later she was on the isle with pickled pigs feet. turning the jar over and over looking in it. We walked by and Matt said "what does she think it is? a science expiriement?"


Rebecca, basicly, if its a part of the cow or hog you think is too 'wrong' for dog food, down here you boil it, throw in some hot pepper and serve it with cornbread OR fry it. and serve it with gravey. or both. LOL Now its a delecacy, used to it was a neccsesity.


OMG Karen!! how neat!! and sad!! But so wonderful!!

I am sure that the way its done here (guess work accompnied by census') wouldnt work with that! I have a few that I want to find, but nothing like that. That is an amazing story!!
You should write it down, so its never lost. You never know when that sort of thing gets lost! Maybe if church rolls and tax rolls were not burned it could be found.

My great grandparents came on a boat to Ellis island. Generations later we still haven't made it more than a few hours away from there.

Oh and it's not us Northern folks that talk funny....
we don't eat gross things either, lol, at least I don't.

chelle wrote:A little while later she was on the isle with pickled pigs feet. turning the jar over and over looking in it. We walked by and Matt said "what does she think it is? a science expiriement?"

Tell him that those of us with weak constitutions try very hard to pretend it's a science experiment.

Of course Scott will eat anything. He tells the kids that if a monster gets in the house to quick grab the butter. The only reason he didn't eat the cicadas this year was because I told him that he wasn't allowed to eat things that the kids thought were pets and they loved those bugs. They've got no fear of humans and the kids would carry them around and (heaven help me) try to get them to chirp.

LOL Karen, at least he will never go hungry!!

I have to admit, I dont eat alot of ..... the wierder foods.

I eat normal stuff, deer, snake, frog legs, squirrel, (wont eat the brains, but will fry them for others), rabbit, dove, crawfish, catfish, perch The traditional parts of a hog, same with a cow, and chicken.

I dont eat, chitlins, feet, ears, tails, tounge, tripe, coon, armadiller, possum, incects of any kind, rodents, ducks, gator, or extreamly greesy meats. I also only eat traditional veggies. and 9 times out of 10, they better be fried. with batter.

Chelle: JP Richardson, the BIG Bopper, died in a plane crash 2/3/59(The Day the Music Died) along with Richie Valens, And Buddy Holly. He is buried in Beaumont, Texas, in Forrest Lawn Cemetary.

The Chinese buffet is my best friend, all you can eat for 6.95. The soul food is another story, Dh will eat greens and Oxtails, but not me....no way. Neither of us is going near tripe, or pigs feet....

chelle wrote:LOL Karen, at least he will never go hungry!!

I have to admit, I dont eat alot of ..... the wierder foods.

I eat normal stuff, deer, snake, frog legs, squirrel, (wont eat the brains, but will fry them for others), rabbit, dove, crawfish, catfish, perch The traditional parts of a hog, same with a cow, and chicken.

I dont eat, chitlins, feet, ears, tails, tounge, tripe, coon, armadiller, possum, incects of any kind, rodents, ducks, gator, or extreamly greesy meats. I also only eat traditional veggies. and 9 times out of 10, they better be fried. with batter.

Add buffalo and bear and peacock and goat to that list and you might have what Scott has tried. He also thinks he's had horse meat once, but the person serving it told him it wasn't. He said it was beef, but Scott is pretty sure it wasn't and they did eat horse in that area. The only two things he doesn't like is onions and mayo. Both make him very queasy even if he doesn't know that he ate them so he probably has some kind of sensitivity.

This thread is very intesting and educational. Better than any history class I remember !

Karen, I particularly enjoyed reading about Berea, having been there, but not knowing about it's roots.

Jefferson Davis was born in Christian County, which is where I live. As we drove to Hopkinsville the very first time, we saw off in a distance a tall structure in the middle of now where... thought perhaps some aliens from space had landed and built it and left. It wasn't until we actually moved here that we learned the history. His 200th birthday came and went this month, and although re-enactments are held every year in June at the monument, this recent one was one of the biggest every held. They are quite interesting to watch.

And another individual, Abraham Lincoln, was also born in KY... and I actually saw the bed he was conceived in Well that's what the ranger at the park said.

An interesting note, Jefferson Davis, who at one time served under Abraham Lincoln, a captain in the army at the time (before the Civil War), became President of the Confederacy and Abraham Lincoln, President on the Union.

I love history.